Zef sailing boat 12 feet, how to upgrade


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So now our boat 12V electric should become self-sufficient.

The daily electricity requirement is estimated at 12.2 Ah:
4 hours of indoor lighting 0.5A = 2Ah
10 hours Posi 0.3A = 3Ah
24 hours VHF 0.3A = 7.2Ah

To meet the needs:
1x wind generator Rutland 504 -> 10Ah per day
1x solar panel approx 25 Wp -> 5Ah per day

Are we about right?

I don't know what the Rutland will bring. But my AirX delivers up to 35 A, so one hour of good wind already 35 Ah. Your Rutland seems to be a toy.

25Wp also only emits a few 100 mA. You would need 10 hours of sun a day and would have to align your module to get to 5 Ah.

Without knowing the exact data, I estimate that you do not generate more than 30 percent of your consumption. Sometimes there is no sun, sometimes no wind. Therefore you have to generate at least twice the requirement to be able to recharge batteries. And the battery bank should have 4-6 times the capacity. You should never remove more than 50%, better only up to 20% (that would then be 5 times the capacity)

The Rutland 503 with its 60 watt turbine (50cm wheel) is actually only intended for trickle charging and should nominally deliver 2A at 19kn (max 5A, but that is probably beyond 6Bft). On average 24h x 0.5A per day can already work with 10Ah / d - but don't know the device myself (is the 504 new, only know the 503?). * update * http://www.shipshop.de/Backskiste/Download/Windgeneratoren_palstekl.pdf also says something between 9 and 12 Ah / d for the 503.

Adding 25Wp panels with 5Ah / d is also about the same in reality. Whether both together are enough for the daily requirement? - seems close.

I have discarded the topic of solar + wind.
It all only works if you are alone on the boat or have a partner who is just as economical.
Since I REALLY want to become self-sufficient, a diesel generator comes on board. Everything can then simply be operated via the: p

I have discarded the topic of solar + wind.
This all only works if you are alone on the boat or have a partner who is just as economical.
Since I REALLY want to become self-sufficient, a diesel generator comes on board. Everything can then be operated via the: p

But then I don't want to lie next to you in a bay. What kind of ship do you have that you think you need a diesel generator?
If the colleague who asked above upgrades the batteries a little and uses space for larger solar panels and then takes the wind generator one size larger, it should work
LG Willi

Bajou writes exactly the problems, 24 hours wind and full sun during the day.
Willi tells you how to do it. AirX and 1 - 2 modules with 50 Wp or more. I have 3 of them and the AirX, so I am self-sufficient, also heating in winter and refrigerator in summer. But will still buy a solar module.

Bajou writes exactly the problems, 24 hours wind and full sun during the day.
Willi tells you how to do it. AirX and 1 - 2 modules with 50 Wp or more. I have 3 of them and the AirX, so I am self-sufficient, also heating in winter and refrigerator in summer. But will still buy a solar module.

Nelason, our colleague seems to be doing something different. Take a closer look at the posting - 10h Posi a 0.3 A means already switched to LED and shorter 12m. 24h VHF sounds like long-haul conditions, so probably more in the trade belt than on the Baltic Sea, no refrigerator, no heating ...

I guess this is a smaller ship, maybe around 10m and a single-handed sailor, they are more frugal anyway ;-). Packing an Air X and square meters of solar on it might be a space problem? The little Rutland is only 3.5kg and 50cm rotor.

With the energy data, I guess that there are only small batteries on board, maybe even only normal 70Ah car batteries ... That can even work with the minimum power supply, but I think only barely.

Hi folks, I have a W870 and want to go on a long trip with it alone. Monster wind generator and giant solar panel simply do not work in terms of space.

Hi folks, I have a W870 and want to go on a long trip with it alone. Monster wind generator and giant solar panel simply do not work in terms of space.

Oha, and how much battery cap is on board?

Oha, and how much battery cap is on board?

1x 44Ah starter
1x 74Ah consumer

I have a 50wp module of the latest technology and the big rutland 913. I need 30-35 A on the day (without saving) (battery bank 120AH). and i don't think my equipment is enough. think the little rutland can be forgotten. so if you haven't bought it yet. take the bigger one.
the problem is also that there is often either sun and no wind or wind and no sun.
I will still get a high line regulator for the LIMA to have even more yield in the short engine running times.

I think without saving electricity (LED retrofitting) one is still not self-sufficient.

andreas

Last summer I used an average of 10 Ah / d with a maximum of 15Ah / d in light wind, hence the idea with the small generator. Posi is on LED and almost all interior lights are already on LED, only the kitchen and red navi light are still normal.

I had forgotten that. Build in a Sterling charge controller then you have dredged enough with one hour of machine running.

LG Willi

Does anyone here have any real experience of their own with the small Rutland generator and / or 25Wp solar panel? That would certainly help our friend here more.

But then I don't want to lie next to you in a bay. What kind of ship do you have that you think you need a diesel generator?
If the colleague who asked above upgrades the batteries a bit and uses space for larger solar panels and then takes the wind generator one size larger, it should work
LG Willi

Hello Willi,
my ship is hardly bigger than yours.
You won't hear anything from the generator next to me in the box or a little further away in the bay, not even the splashing of the cooling water;)

Hello Ralf

Then you would be the notable exception.
If your ship is no bigger than mine, why do you need a generator?

LG Willi

bajou, my ship is only 12.6 m long, and quite narrow. Nevertheless, I am happy about the 616 Ah battery capacity. (New, better batteries, the old ones were 560 Ah) In addition, a starter battery with 80 Ah. If there is less than 400 Ah remaining capacity, I get nervous and switch off the consumer (refrigerator) or start the engine.

My AirX whispers with the new sheets. You can't hear it, the shrouds whistle.

The main consumers of electricity are probably the refrigerator and the heater.
Plus radar and autopilot.

The heating and refrigerator can be temporarily reduced. When driving, the radar and AP (chart plotter, instruments) should already be running. No problem under the engine. But in light winds, partly clouds or at night or in front of the wind, the recharge is no longer sufficient.

bajou, my ship is only 12.6 m long, and quite narrow. Nevertheless, I am happy about the 616 Ah battery capacity. (New, better batteries, the old ones were 560 Ah) Plus a starter battery with 80 Ah. If there is less than 400 Ah remaining capacity, I get nervous and switch off the consumer (refrigerator) or start the engine.

My AirX whispers with the new sheets. You can't hear it, the shrouds whistle.

The main consumers of electricity are probably the refrigerator and the heater.
Plus radar and autopilot.

The heating and refrigerator can be temporarily reduced. When driving, the radar and AP (chart plotter, instruments) should already be running. No problem under the engine. But in light winds, partly clouds or at night or in front of the wind, the recharge is no longer sufficient.

Well, there are worlds between the 8.7m of the author's ship and 12.6m. I also drive just under 9m and would probably not want to nail a stable 50mm mast and over 1m wingspan AirX to the stern.

Hello Ralf

Then you would be the notable exception.
If your ship is no bigger than mine, why do you need a generator?

LG Willi

Hello Willi,
I hope that I will be The generator is still in my garage.
Read Nelson's post below yours and you'll know why. It has over 600Ah and discharges it despite the wind generator (except for less than 40 Ah residual capacity as he writes). I just don't feel like leaving the machine running to reload, because it is really loud ...

In addition, the generator opens up unimagined possibilities for me at a price similar to a wind / solar system ...

Best wishes
Ralf

Edit: oh now I'm reading that he is already nervous at 400Ah. Well then I can't think of anything anymore ...

Hello Ralf.
we also have 600Ah service batteries with a battery controller from Votronic.
We also have two solar cells with 55 WP each and a sterling charge controller.
Despite two fridges, laptops and the whole Pi Pa Po, we are self-sufficient for a week.
If we then move on to another bay or wherever, the machine running time is sometimes enough to fully power the batteries with the Sterling charge controller.
Nevertheless, I'm curious what your generator will do and how you want to install it so quietly.
But only your experience will show that.
Where is your ship that I can check ;-)))

Greetings Willi

Wow, I don't know how the others see it, but I find this power consumption perverse. We get by on the way with 70Ah - i.e. 35 withdrawals - for 3-4 days without recharging. If a watermaker were on board, it would be more, but so?

With such a power consumption as normal, there would probably never have been a Hiscock or Erdmann or Wilts or or or Circumnavigation ...

They would probably not have 2 refrigerators, electr. autopilot, 2 laptops and, and, and on board.
For me, our sailing boat is a floating, mobile holiday home and I'm too old to have to save electricity ;-)))

Greetings Willi

They would probably not have 2 refrigerators, electr. autopilot, 2 laptops and, and, and had on board.
For me, our sailing boat is a floating, mobile holiday home and I'm too old to have to save electricity ;-)))

Greetings Willi

Moin Willi,
The comparison with the house is good - I did a quick calculation, calculated over the year in our house there is an average of 4 amps for 4 people with a dog including heating and hot water ... Ok, although 220V is not that far away with the floating house ;) and I have Northern Europe heating season with me ...
Bjorn

Oh yeah, forget about watermaker. 80 Ah to fill the 300 liter tank. Most of the time I refill 100 liters at around 80 liters. Then lasts 2 days. approx. 12 Ah / day for water.

Moin Willi,
The comparison with the house is good - I did a quick calculation, calculated over the year in our house there is an average of 4 amps for 4 people with a dog including heating and hot water ... Ok, although 220V is not that far away with the floating house ;) and I have Northern Europe heating season with me ...
Bjorn


Hello Björn.

Are you telling me that we use too much electricity? ;-))))

Tell my wife, the best captain of them all.

best regards

Willi from the Capella

Hello Björn.

Are you telling me that we use too much electricity? ;-))))

Tell my wife, the best captain of them all.

best regards

Willi from the Capella

I would never want to say that - maybe my low consumption is due to the fact that my captain sails so rarely ...;).

Perhaps because you are depriving her of too much comfort.

I'm afraid your calculation regarding the 25WP panel is a bit too optimistic. We have 4 panels with a total of almost 150 WP. Most of what I've measured in terms of charging current so far has been 5A. In summer we can do it for several weeks with the refrigerator (2A) switched on, but when it's really hot in August and the days get shorter again, it's not enough. You will find that the charging current immediately goes into the basement with the slightest shadowing or less than optimal alignment and this cannot be avoided when sailing.
We also have a 1KW Honda generator. Can hardly be heard from a short distance. I consider charging via the machine to be inefficient and not exactly healthy for the machine.
I discarded the wind generator because we spend a lot of time in bays and are happy when it doesn't whistle. The Rutland 504 needs at least 19 knots of wind for 2A, that's 5 Bft.

MuS

Klaus

Too much electricity is being used on the yachts - pull the power out of the bridge and don't plug in the plug later.

A loud scream - all the food is spoiled.

Get by on electricity for at least a week without a shore connection
Running in and running out is under the engine

I ...
I discarded the wind generator because we spend a lot of time in bays and are happy when it doesn't whistle. The Rutland 504 needs at least 19 knots of wind for 2A, that's 5 Bft.

MuS

Klaus

AirX with the new (not original sheets) You don't hear anything! The shrouds whistle louder!

Hello Willi,

we are welcome to meet. We are still on the move in the Baltic Sea. Fehmarn this year.

Hello Ralf

It's a shame, we're at the other end at the moment. Sicily with the urge to move towards Gr and Tr in the next 5 years.

Still all the best, Willi

Hello,

Does anyone here have any real experiences with the small Rutland generator and / or 25Wp solar panel? That would certainly help our friend here more.

giovanni could express himself there, he has a similar configuration and is without a machine (was defective) between the seychelles and the maldives (large ruthland and solar 50Wp ???). there was no refrigerator in the game.

see you
: D: D: D

There has been this discussion several times ... there are sailors who don't need electricity at all, and there are some who have battery capacities beyond 600AH ... you can't find a common denominator.
To be self-sufficient is the greatest thing there is, that doesn't include a smelly generator and it is just a matter of saving electricity. LED wherever possible, etc ...
Since my space requirement at 28 feet is also very limited, I installed a second solar panel in front of the jib. It's high enough there to be protected from waves and is only shaded when I drive north. Nevertheless, the 2x 50Wp is not enough, because the refrigerator eats a lot. A timer tames it, because even in the minimum setting it would otherwise still get too cold.
Running times of around 10 'an hour are completely sufficient - even at 35C ° in Italy in August.

I would like a wind generator, but my wife doesn't like to turn the boat into a decorated Christmas tree ... grrrr

Greetings from the earthquake-torn Italy,

Marian

AirX with the new (not original sheets) You don't hear anything! The shrouds whistle louder!

By whistling I also meant the wind and not the generator. We prefer a light breeze at anchor and not 5 Bft.

Hello,
At the berth this is ultimately uncomfortable but not critical if the electricity is too scarce. It is more annoying (or even dangerous) to only have limited access to the autopilot, navi, etc., far outside. at the shipshop there is an underwater generator, which is unbeatably quiet, but it only works when there is enough current (from 2kn and approx. 1300 €) Ampair Under Water (http://www.shipshop.de/BlueWater/Wind/Ampair/UnderWater/ underwater.html). I mean, you should definitely have a little mop, I have a 850 VA thing from iiiih-bäääh for emergencies, which is available from around € 75 including shipping.

see you
: D: D: D

I returned the Ampair. That was crap. May stretches OK for 20 days but cruising if possible for short trips of 1 day and in the coastal area with a depth of less than 30 m that is nothing.

You cannot get the prop out of the water while driving. It has to hang freely vertically before you start moving, then the line twists and transfers this to the generator. (By the way, only brings 5 ​​A). If you forget to retrieve the thing when you run it in, the prop will tear off. It can hardly be salvaged in heavy seas.

It is also important to always have fully charged batteries when lying down.

1. Maybe you want to start the Watermaker
2. you want to sail longer distances at some point.
3. You might want to maintain contact with the KW spark. It pulls tremendously when sending.

AirX with the new (not original sheets) You don't hear anything! The shrouds whistle louder!

As a reminder: we're talking about a 8.7m plywood (?) Boat and a 1.2m wind generator on it? Doesn't that look like a prevented helicopter?

Hello,

I returned the Ampair. That was crap. May stretches OK for 20 days. but cruising as much as possible for short distances of 1 day and in coastal areas with a depth of less than 30 m that is nothing.

You cannot get the prop out of the water while driving. It has to hang freely vertically before you start moving, then the line twists and transfers this to the generator. (By the way, only brings 5 ​​A). If you forget to retrieve the thing when you run it in, the prop will tear off.It can hardly be salvaged in heavy seas.

It is also important to always have fully charged batteries when lying down.

1. Maybe you want to start the Watermaker
2. you want to sail longer distances at some point.
3. You might want to maintain contact with the KW spark. It pulls tremendously when sending.

I don't mean the ampair, have a look at the link.
what you say is correct, but under land cover and / or at anchor it is not so wild. there is usually always something going on, borrowing a generator, letting water in bottles tiled, ........! with me here you can walk alongside the fishermen and scrounge electricity. the squid lurk at anchor with festival lights at night.

see you
: D: D: D

As a reminder: we're talking about a 8.7m plywood (?) Boat and a 1.2m wind generator on it? Doesn't that look like a prevented helicopter?

Good point! : D


But what if he wants electricity?

When there is calm, the batteries could then be fed into the generator!

Hello Ralf

It's a shame, we're at the other end at the moment. Sicily with the urge to move towards Gr and Tr in the next 5 years.

Still all the best, Willi

You're good - I'd love to be there too :)

It just depends on the latitudes in which you are traveling.
Here in Italy, solar is the source of energy in general, whereas the wind is very unstable.
With a transatlantic I would also rely on wind energy ...
What do you think of additionally installing the thin adhesive modules, e.g. on the transom? (I incline approx. 45 °) At 28 feet you have to use every cm2 ...

Greetings Marian

The position is not bad! By jumping on the anchor, you can always align the boat with the sun at the berth, so it really brings electricity!

AirX with the new (not original sheets) You don't hear anything! The shrouds whistle louder!

Last night there was someone close by with the old ... I understand people who become animals, the junk is not bearable.

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